Showing results for 
Search instead for 
Do you mean 
Community Home Request Access Read Blogs Share Your Ideas Search Community View My Settings
Reply
Gold Super Contributor
Posts: 3,087
Registered: ‎03-19-2009

Re: SalesLogix on Virtual Servers

Thanks for the endorsement Matt!

 

For those who subscribe to SQL Server Magazine...:

    April 2009 issue has an article called: Expert Advice on Virtualizing SQL Server

This article discusses the pros and cons of SQL server virtualization and is very interesting.

 

However, like Matt stated, there a lot of things to take into consideration and disk I/O, etc.. It's just not a good idea for SalesLogix...

 

Food for thought.. Think about trying to virtualize a Clustered SQL server.. think about it and then just forget it! 

  

--
RJ Ledger - rjledger@rjlSystems.net +1 603.369.3047 x101

".. Innovators in Mobility - Experts in Workflow Automation..."
http://www.rjlSystems.net - blog: www.rjlSystems.net/blog.html
Gold Super Contributor
Posts: 3,087
Registered: ‎03-19-2009

Re: SalesLogix on Virtual Servers

Humm.. dod not know that.

 

I was aware it's running (a single threaded) SQLexpress and not a full SQL engine.

--
RJ Ledger - rjledger@rjlSystems.net +1 603.369.3047 x101

".. Innovators in Mobility - Experts in Workflow Automation..."
http://www.rjlSystems.net - blog: www.rjlSystems.net/blog.html
Highlighted
Copper Contributor
Posts: 28
Registered: ‎04-01-2009

Re: SalesLogix on Virtual Servers


@Dave_vt wrote:

putting this in perspective, our new SalesLogix Today offering operates in a virtual environment on an appliance

 

David 


 

So David, I am just curious about this.  I don't know a lot about SalesLogix Today, just what I have seen in the E-Mail blasts, but it has a SQL engine on it right?  So is Sage endorsing, in fact recommending, putting SQL in a virtual environment?  At least for their appliance solution?

 

Ted Sturr

Palomar Medical

Tuned Listener
Posts: 11
Registered: ‎05-01-2008

Re: SalesLogix on Virtual Servers

Some further general thoughts on the topic of virtualization.  Its a technology that I believe has reached mainstream, and offers of huge benefits for customers and vendors alike.

 

Its also not always true that a an application running in virtual environment runs slower than in a native one.  Any one who 's run Autocad on a Mac under Parallels can vouch for this.  It's faster in most tasks than running in a native XP environment.  There are some technical reasons for this, which are beyond my level of understanding, and I'll invite Mark Janzen of Applianz to join this thread and give some more details.  

 

 

Here's an interesting article on the general topic

 

 http://news.zdnet.com/2100-9595_22-255255.html  

Tuned Listener
Posts: 9
Registered: ‎04-02-2009

Re: SalesLogix on Virtual Servers


@mlewis wrote:

From a Customer Support perspective: We help troubleshoot whether the environment is virtualized or not. However, depending upon the nature of the issue, we may ask that a test be performed in a non-virtualized setup so we determine if it is a contributing factor, which it may be if the issue is performance-related.

 

I agree with the posters who note that performance is the key concern. However, I'd like to know the group's thoughts on virutalizing the sync server if you have a large number of remote clients, i.e., can setting up a primary and secondary sync server on the same machine improve sync performance?

 

 

Message Edited by mlewis on 04-02-2009 09:43 AM

 

Melanie, 

 

You know our environment here and those have been our concerns with regards to moving to a VM environment. If we were to go virtualized, it's not exactly an easy thing to move a primary/secondary sync server over from a VM environment to a non-virtualized enviornment. How much longer would it have taken us with regards to troubleshooting to identify the conflict resolution issue we had on the sync servers if we were in a virtualized environment? With over 350 remote users, performance is definitely a key factor for us that we have to keep in mind but that performance gain (hopefully a gain) will be outweighed by the ability for us to effectively work with your support group in a timely process.

 

I would certainly not be adverse to moving our primary and secondary sync server (and then adding additional sync servers since we are technically under the 1 sync server per 100 remotes recommendation today)  into a virtualized environment. 

 

First day here and I'm very glad for the group already, this is great discussion!

Tuned Listener
Posts: 11
Registered: ‎05-01-2008

Re: SalesLogix on Virtual Servers


@TSturr wrote:

 

So David, I am just curious about this.  I don't know a lot about SalesLogix Today, just what I have seen in the E-Mail blasts, but it has a SQL engine on it right?  So is Sage endorsing, in fact recommending, putting SQL in a virtual environment?  At least for their appliance solution?

 

Ted Sturr

Palomar Medical


 

Hi Ted.  

 

Not ready for a blanket endorsement yet.  The SalesLogix Today Appliance (from Applianz) is a completely controlled environment, and in that enviroment , yes we fully support the virtual confirguration, because its a single confirtuation thats been well tested. 

 

 

New Member
Posts: 1
Registered: ‎04-02-2009

Re: SalesLogix on Virtual Servers

You are right that in many instances a virtual machine runs faster than a native one. There are several reasons including:

 

* The virtual machine hypervisor is simulating some CPU functions in a way that is faster than they would normally happen. One of our stockholders who was a CPU architect at AMD explained to me that the virtual machine hypervisor eliminates the need for the CPU to switch between kernel context and application context, a process that normally happens often and is time intensive.

* The host machine can accelerate activities within the VM. For instance, in the SalesLogix Today product almost half of the host memory is normally devoted to a disk cache. So if the Windows 2003 virtual machine should get into a state in which it starts paging memory, it is often just paging it to the hosts RAM and not to a physical disk offering a dramatic performance gain.

* The "video card" of the virtual machine is not a real video card and therefore most of the time it can just pretend to update the screen and not actually do any of the work.

* Similarly, the network adapter of the virtual machine is not a real network adapter and therefore the hypervisor can do tricks like just copying memory between the network cards of two virtual machines while letting them pretend they were actually sending traffic over ethernet.

 

This is really just the tip of the iceberg of ways in which virtual machines can be faster than real ones. Our experience over the last several years in fine tuning the Applianz platform is that the real world speed up is about 10-50%, depending upon many factors. 

New Member
Posts: 7
Registered: ‎04-02-2009

Re: SalesLogix on Virtual Servers

I am happily running both my sync server and my IIS host in VMware ESX 3.5. Providing you have appropriate resources and do not overcommit, these seem to run fine (although we are not a big SL shop).

 

I would not run SQL Server in a VM, not because it can't be done, but because the resources required to do it effectively are quite big and I run the risk of it monopolizing I/O on my modest ESX environment. But, the reality is, if you throw enough horsepower and memory at it, SQL will run fine, (and in some ways better), just don't expect to be able to do it with limited resources (much like building a physical SQL box).


The benefits of running it virtualized are huge: backups, DR, performance tweaking, migrations, snapshotting, high availability, and so on.And no more forced upgrades simply because a server is running on old hardware...